Oliver Stone is growing breasts

August 27, 2006 at 1:57 am (Uncategorized)

stone.jpgIt’s become almost taboo these days to express negativity about anything pertaining to 911. But that’s what I’m doing. Specifically, I’m deriding “World Trade Center” as one of the most misdirected, sappy ass pieces of crap to come along this season. No, seriously. Oliver Stone must be taking heaping helpings of estrogen these days. Slap an extreme reality title on this sucker (“Not Without My Husband!) and you’ve got a Lifetime movie. That Valerie Harper and Gerald McCraney never appeared on screen is a damn miracle.

How any one can fail to move the audience with such a horrific subject is beyond me. The film focuses on two men trapped beneath the rubble and their anguished loved ones back at home. The script jumps back and forth between the subterranean crisis and some really mundane scenes involving wives and children of the trapped men. I mean, it really jumps back and forth. It’s like those funny cartoons you draw in a notebook so that action seems to be taking place as you flip the pages. Only, the action in those notebook sketches are a lot more entertaining.

The film provides no sense at all of the larger scale horror of 911. There is no hint that thousands of others died and suffered as well. Just these two men you can’t see down in the dark, and their wives at home fretting about baby names and unfinished kitchen cabinets. Halfway through the movie, horrible as it sounds, you actually start to dislike those wives a little.

I was braced for the unpleasant but important reminder of the terrorists attacks of 2001. But the movie entirely failes to provoke any genuine recollections of the fear and rage. I spent most of the movie inspecting kernels of corn and hearkening back to the day it happened. Me, I was in bed asleep when it happened. I woke up to that mess and spent part of the day half believing I was dreaming.

valerieharper.JPGSo, go ahead and tell me where you were when you learned that the Twin Towers and the Pentagon were hit. Tell me eerie stories about how you were supposed to be in New York that day but cancelled because you developed a really nasty corn on your foot. Give me a proper Lifetime title for this movie. Anything. Just don’t tell me you liked it unless you happen to be Oliver Stone. And if you are Oliver Stone: Dude. What happened?

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85 Comments

  1. Nadine said,

    Yep, I saw the movie too. I kept waiting for something, though I’m not sure exactly what. I felt like I was tensed up for some great moment to happen, but it never came.

    The movie will probably be great only to those directly related to the characters Mr. Stone decided to focus on.

    I left sad…but definitely also felt “led on” considering how much the media (and Oliver and Nic Cage) hyped it up.

    You hit the nail on the head Mark, in that it should have been a Lifetime movie — it was ok, but not theater worthy.

    PS: I’m baaaaacckkk!!! 🙂

  2. Mainetarr said,

    Hey Nadine….how was your trip? Have a good time?

    I heard the movie sucked, too, but to be honest, I wasn’t planning on seeing it-just like the movie about the plane that went down in the field on 9-11. You know, when that happened, I was at the final stages of planning my wedding (9-29) and had folks flying in from all over. Chris’s brother in law was working on Wall Street, but his train was late that day and he missed it. Chris’s dad was stuck on a plane at Logan Airport, three flights behind the second plane that hit the trade center. He spent the entire day on the plane, waiting as they figured out what was going on. Me, I was at work on the psych unit at St. Mary’s. I remember one of the nurses running down the hallway for me and my office mate Cheryl to come to the waiting room to watch tv. We ran down the hall and a bunch of us were watching the trade center on fire. They just started talking about terrorism, I picked up the phone and called Chris (who was working nights at the time) to wake him up to put the tv on. While I was on the phone with him, the second tower was struck and everyone started to panic. I remember standing in front of the television, literally glued to it. Cheryl went back to our office to grab something and the radio had reported the pentagon had been hit, it was definitely terrorists and another plane had gone down in Pennsylvania. There is a good reason why they call it terrorism, you ARE terrified, no doubt about it.

    You know what was weird though? No airplanes in the sky at all for the days following 9-11. That was strange. Eerie…

  3. K2 said,

    Testify!

    Well put, Mark. I haven’t even seen the movie (nor will I) and I couldn’t agree with you more.

    Am I gay if I think Greg Kinnear is a great actor? He’s in currently in two movies that I want to see — when they come out on video.

  4. jarheaddoc said,

    I am not going to see the movie.

    I am going to alienate some people with this statement, but it’s my opinion: 9/11 happened, fucking get past it. That one day in our history should not dictate the rest of this country’s days.

    We have a bunch of people who are making professional victims of themselves because of what happened. I think it’s a shit thing to be told that mom or dad isn’t coming home because someone flew an airplane into the job site.

    I also think it’s a shit thing to take advantage of people by asking them to send money in for ‘the victims and their families” and not have that money accounted for. I gave to the REd Cross and no one else. I didn’t trust the donation seeking people back then, and I don’t now.

    The emergency services workers who responded to all of those scenes all knew that they might not make it home that night. They died doing the job, nothing more. When was the last time you saw a news article mention the six men who died in Worcester in the factory fire? why are they less important than the ones who died in the World Trade Center? Their families were just as devastated.

    America, as a country, had long beleived itself impervious to foreign terrorists and terrorism was an overseas problem. Osama Bin Laden has been quoted as saying that he wants to go to war with America, but America won’t fight back.

    The writing was on the wall, and I don’t discount that the government of the US wanted it to happen. Who the fuck knows? I also don’t totally beleive it either. It was going to happen, it was just a question of when.

    A lot of people deserve to be called heroes for their actions that day, but moreso the civilians who helped than the emergency services workers. That’s what those people do, help others. Yeah, it was a disaster, but we have to move on.

    And as far as Greg Kinnear, I think he’s got some talent, too, K2. Have you seen Auto Focus?

  5. LaFlamme said,

    Wow. And I thought I was going out on the limb bashing the movie.

  6. LaFlamme said,

    You’ll be happy to know that the second feature, Tusgadella Nights, or whatever the hell it’s called, was much more to my liking. Classic Will Farrell. Beauty.

  7. jarheaddoc said,

    Olly Stone is way late in jumping on the bandwagon that a great many celebrities rushed to get on after 9/11. Anything done ‘in the name of 9/11!’ is at risk of becoming cliche

  8. LaFlamme said,

    I thought Stone would do a more realistic, unflinching look at it, though. Platoons style, maybe. Not that it needed hard gore and violence. Just mood. The mood of it was totally lacking.

  9. K2 said,

    jd, while agree with have to ‘move on,’ I firmly believe the real victims of the 9/11 should have our fullest sympathies. My friend’s daughter will never know her father because of that day (she was 7 months in the womb), and nary a day goes by that I don’t grieve for her and her mother. I think the firemen-in-Worcester example is apples and oranges. Yes, a total tragedy, but, shit, they were not attacked by people at war with us.

    As for our government possibly ‘wanting’ the attack, that’s the craziest fucking thing I’ve read in here. I hate Bush and Co. more than anything, but there’s just no way in hell they wanted the attack. Next thing you’ll intimate is that there were hidden explosives in the WTC that were the real cause of its collapse. Yoy.

    But no, I haven’t seen ‘Auto Focus.’ I’m not much of a movie guy, but I’ll have to check it out sometime.

  10. jarheaddoc said,

    “and I don’t discount that the government of the US wanted it to happen. Who the fuck knows?”

    I will admit that I should have worded that a lot better, K2. I would certainly hope that the government of the US was doing a better job of protecting its people. I am not a cospiracy theorist by any stretch, but who really knows the truth?

    I don’t doubt that the cause was those planes, either.

    But let me ask you this, in terms of an apples and oranges comparison:
    what difference does it make how either group of people died? Families were left behind in both cases, and the workers are still just as dead.

    It seems to me that we use ‘hero’ the way some of the Islamic religion use ‘martyr’.

  11. Bobbie said,

    K2,
    Just for shins and grins, check out the following sites:

    http://www.infowars.com
    http://www.prisonplanet.com
    http://www.prisonplanet.net

    Even if they only give you a good laugh for the day, then it will be worth it.

  12. Bobbie said,

    Mark,
    You really must be doing a good job if someone from Poland wants to rename the SJ in your honor.

  13. LaFlamme said,

    The letter writer said: “Why don’t you just rename the Sun Journal the Mark LaFlamme Daily?”
    I could take that as a compliment of the loftiest order. Or a snide insult. More confusing was the letter that followed. The one admonishing me for listing the website to the guy selling the Creature t-shirts. Totally baffling. In that woman’s defense though, she is a friggin’ loon.

  14. K2 said,

    Yeah, I was wondering about that lady. I had no idea what the fuck she was writing about.

    I missed the Mark LaFlamme Daily one, though. Paste that sucker here if you have the time.

    jd, I see your point to a degree, about how people die. It’s like hate crimes. I mean, murders committed against someone, solely because of their race, are hideous. But so are murders committed for the money in one’s wallet. The end result is the same — dead folks. Innocent dead folks. For no good reason at all. Doesn’t matter what you call it. Mere semantics.

    As for the ‘hero/martyr’ observation, it’s all a god’s-on-our-side thing. Just so silly — and wholely illogical.

  15. LaFlamme said,

    It was the phrase I wrote above verbatim. That was all.

  16. K2 said,

    Bobbie, I’ll check out those links later. Dinner beckons. . . .

  17. LaFlamme said,

    What an ugly sentence that was. I apologize.

  18. AO said,

    Not so bad. We’re all loon’s at some point in our lives. I got a big chuckle out of that letter. I think you should take it as a compliment. You shouldn’t take it any other way.

  19. LaFlamme said,

    Thanks, AO. Where’ve you been, young lady?

  20. AO said,

    I’ve been around. Just, busy. I keep expecting to find the “real beast” drowned in my swimming pool but, so far…nothing. You’ll be the first to know when it happens. I wanna be on the Montel Williams show!

  21. K2 said,

    Leave it to one of the nuts (Umbagog) in Our View to bring up the Thermite-explosives-not-fuel-filled-jets-brought-down-the-WTC ‘theory.’ Some people are just so gad damn fucked in the head, it’s unfathomable.

  22. K2 said,

    That’s right, I said ‘gad,’ gad dammit.

  23. AO said,

    I saw that post, K2. I’ve heard that theory before. It’s fucked up.

  24. Gil said,

    Alex Jones is a fucking idiot and a few sandwiches short of a picnic. He is a conspiracy asshat that only the least intelligent from either side of the political field would give any credence to at all. Imagine Jerry Springer on acid and you come close to this clown.

  25. LaFlamme said,

    Wait, if those guys are blaming internal forces for the World Trade Center, how do they explain the airplanes sticking out of the sides?

  26. LaFlamme said,

    That Valerie Harper is a fine looking woman, by the way.

  27. Linda said,

    And who doesn’t like Gerald McRaney, too?

  28. Gil said,

    Tonight on Lifetime, Meredith Baxter Birney is beat with a rod in “The Rod”

  29. AO said,

    Major Dad…Major Hots…

  30. Linda said,

    Mark, next time go see Snakes on a Plane. Nothing snoozy about that movie! And the script definitely DOES NOT jump back and forth. Something for everyone. I loved it.

  31. LaFlamme said,

    Yeah, I plan to, Linda. Does Samuel L. swear a lot? Nobody does it better.

  32. LaFlamme said,

    Tonight on Lifetime, Delta Burke is a woman who lives with shame and self-loathing due to her habit of eating kittens. See “I Eat Kittens and I Can’t Stop,” a Lifetime special presentation brought to you by Massengill.

  33. Linda said,

    No, not really, except for the CLASSIC line near the end that I won’t quote since you already know it I’m sure. But he plays a real take-charge guy, and nobody does that better either.

    And a classic first line from him: “Do what I say, and live.” Punchy. No spare words, you know?

  34. AO said,

    Hey, “I See food and I Can’t Stop” Eh…depends on what it is. Kittens..never, I’m coughing up a hairball just thinking about it.

  35. AO said,

    I’ve GOT to see Snakes.

  36. Linda said,

    You sure, Mark? Sounds more like the Ricki Lake Show.

  37. Linda said,

    AO, be prepared to scream. You won’t be able to help it. It’s the first time I screamed at the movies since I was thirteen and saw “Premature Burial.”

  38. LaFlamme said,

    The bounderies which divide life and death are at best, shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and the other begins?
    Sorry. Mention the Premature Burial, I start quoting Poe.

  39. Gil said,

    All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.
    That would explain a lot Mr Poe

  40. The Friendly Buddhist said,

    Once upon a mid
    night dreary, while I pondered
    Oops, been done before

  41. LaFlamme said,

    I’ll have you know I can verbally recite both of those poems, man. Amazingly, I never picked up any girls with that.

  42. Gil said,

    Harder yet to believe is that not once have I gotten any with a haiku

  43. LaFlamme said,

    Ah, I dunno. The haikus have potential.

  44. Gil said,

    Once upon a weekend dreary, while I surfed and Google queried,
    Using webcams to watch others getting laid on their kitchen floor,
    Squint-eyed, stroking, nearly exploding, suddenly there came a pop-up,
    An advertisement promising, promising to bring me whores.
    `’Tis some porn site,’ I muttered, `charging me to see their whores –
    Only this, and nothing more.’

    A work in progress

  45. AO said,

    Hmm..Haiku’s are..hot! Um…except for Gil’s last one..”never more”…;)

  46. LaFlamme said,

    No. No that’s quite good.

  47. Anonymous said,

    Mark needs to have his eyes looked at because there were no planes sticking out of the World Trade Centers. Everybody in America either saw the second plane hit live or they saw it hit on multiple replays. Don’t go ragging on Alex just because he points out something you ostrichs refuse to see.

  48. K2 said,

    It’s official: ‘Anonymous’ is fucking nuts.

  49. K2 said,

    And what a pussy, too. Can’t even use his/her name to defend the indefensible. (Cue bawking chicken.)

  50. Anonymous said,

    Why is it when someone disagrees with you over 911, K2, you have to resort to calling them “fucking nuts” or other things? Notice that I have not called you any names, nor will I either. My choice not to use a name does not give you the right to call me a pussy, but I will consider the source. You present your proof and I will present mine and then we will see what the indefensible is.

  51. Linda said,

    Just so you know — that’s not me 🙂

  52. Gil said,

    Alright Anon, where is your proof? Bring it or shut your pie hole.

  53. K2 said,

    My proof? Sure: http://www.architectureweek.com/2002/0515/news_1-1.html

    The article concludes that the exact course of events will probably never be known, but that by no means insinuates that there were explosives in the WTC that got detentated after/before/during/whatever the planes flew in. (Were the planes real? And the Pentagon and Flight 93?) Now there’s some creative terrorism for you. I mean, seriously, that is the most fucked up conspiracy I’ve ever heard. Ram fuel-filled jets into the WTC simply to fake people out, while you then clandetinely blow up the buildings with Thermite explosives. In basketball terms, that’s quite a juke.

    Isn’t it ironic then that Stone’s new Lifetime drama isn’t a ridiculously far-fetched conspiracy a la his loony ‘JFK’?

    And you know, with a moniker such as yours, solipsisticly, I’m not sure you exist. So, now your proof of conspiracy and existence, Anonymous?

  54. lost shoe said,

    wow. I watched it live, on the news. And replays all day, maybe 2 days….Or was that some elaborate special effects fake-news? wow, was hurricane Katrina a special effects media hoax, too? what next?

  55. LaFlamme said,

    That moon landing? Never happened.

  56. Anonymous said,

    Victor Thorn
    9-11: Jet Fuel Can’t Burn Construction-Grade Steel
    Fri Apr 23, 2004 02:29
    63.228.145.202

    9-11: Jet Fuel Can’t Burn Construction-Grade Steel
    by Victor Thorn – sisyphus1285@cs.com
    Sisyphus Press
    P.O. Box 10495
    State College, Pa.
    16805-0495
    http://69.28.73.17/thornarticles/jetfuel.html

    The official government version of how the World Trade Center collapsed has been well-established. Due to excessive heat created by airliners crashing into each tower, the building’s support beams melted, subsequently causing each structure to pancake to the ground.

    But is this the way it really happened? The laws of physics seem to contradict this account. How so? Well, to begin, construction-grade steel (and I think we can all agree that the WTC engineers would have used only the highest grade steel possible) melts at 2795 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s a proven fact, as can be seen from the website: http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/fe.html . Meanwhile, according to a BBC report on September 13, 2001 entitled How the World Trade Center Fell, the WTC steel cores reached a temperature of 1472 degrees Fahrenheit, which, coincidentally, is the maximum temperature of jet fuel, but nowhere near the 2795 degrees needed to melt steel.

    Now, of course, we need to look for other sources of information, but instead of quoting “conspiracy theorists” (which the establishment media always seems to sneer at), we’ll stick with the government’s own sources. FEMA itself said that temperatures inside the WTC towers reached 1700-2000 degrees Fahrenheit – somewhat higher than the BBC’s estimates, but still not nearly enough to melt steel.

    As you can see, we’re beginning to have a problem trying to coincide how jet fuel can melt construction-grade steel. So, let’s ponder this question: what do welders or factory workers use to melt steel? Answer: acetylene torches, electric arcs, or bottled oxygen. And do they ever use jet fuel as their energy source? Never, because jet fuel doesn’t burn hot enough. It has an ignition temperature of 410 degrees Fahrenheit, and if they tried to cut or melt steel with it, they’d sit there all day because it never reaches a high enough temperature. What jet fuel (or a similar derivative) is used for is lamp oil, charcoal starter fluid, or to run lawnmowers – not to cut or melt steel.

    Now, if the laws of physics aren’t enough to convince you that something is awry, consider these words from author Eric Hufschmid in Time for Painful Questions: “Fire has never caused a steel building to collapse.” Ever! In the history of the world, fire has never caused a steel building to collapse, yet on the morning of 9-11, TWO of them did! Even Philadelphia’s raging 1991 Meridian Plaza fire (often called the most significant fire of the 20th century) which blazed on eight floors for nineteen straight hours and was countless times more extreme than that which affected the WTC towers, still didn’t cause that building to collapse. But we’re expected to believe that these two relatively smaller fires on 9-11 reduced the world’s two tallest structures to dust.

    Further, in the mid-1990s, the British Steel and Building Research Establishment did an experiment on the affects of fire on steel buildings. During these tests they raised the temperatures well above those produced by jet fuels – up to 1700 degrees Fahrenheit – yet not one of these buildings collapsed in any of their six experiments.

    With this information in mind, let’s return to the morning of September 11th. As we all remember, when the second jet crashed into the South Tower, most of its fuel splashed outside of the building upon impact because it struck the corner. Now, ponder this point – this tower was hit after the first tower, most of the fuel splashed outside the building, and the fire was significantly smaller. Yet, the government wants us to believe that the construction-grade steel beams collapsed first. How? The North Tower was hit first, and its fire burned more rapidly. Establishment media “experts” realized the inherent problems with this scenario, so they explained that the support beams got “soft” from the fire; then collapsed. If we accept this thesis, then logically the North Tower should have fallen first; yet it came down twenty minutes after the South Tower despite having a much larger fire.

    But we need to return to the laws of physics once again, for after each airliner crashed into the WTC towers, the great explosions consumed most of the jet fuel within minutes. In a report entitled Jet Fuel: How Hot Did It Heat the World Trade Center that was posted on Hawaii Indymedia, we find this scientific observation: “The time to consume the jet fuel can be reasonably computed. At the upper bound, if one assumes that all 10,000 gallons of fuel were evenly spread across a single building floor, it would form a pool that would be consumed by the fire in less than five minutes.”

    Of course, other items were also burning, including the cabinets, carpets, walls, paper, and furniture inside the WTC towers. But even then, if all of these items burned with perfect efficiency, the temperature could still not reach that needed to melt steel. Try it sometime. Plus, after the initial blaze, we could see on TV that by 9:03 am – only eighteen minutes after the first tower was struck – most of the fire was reduced to black smoke, thus meaning that it was starved for oxygen and was by now just a smoldering, low-temperature fire – not a continual rip-roaring blaze. What this obviously implies is that liquid fuel doesn’t burn hot for long, and it evaporates or boils as it burns.

    So, two huge questions remain: (1) what actually made this construction-grade steel melt when it obviously wasn’t jet fuel, and (2) how could the South Tower collapse in just 47 minutes – half the time it took for the North Tower to come down – when it had a much smaller fire? Maybe the 9-11 Commission should start finding answers for these questions.
    =============================

  57. K2 said,

    So, who did it? Was Mel right? It’s the Jews? Or was it the government? Both? I can’t wait for your ‘answer.’

    Where in the official analysis, ‘Heat caused steel in the floor trusses to expand, promoting buckling in columns, at the same time that the heat softened the steel and the aircraft debris contributed to gravity loads, leading to progressive collapse,’ does it talk about the fire melting the steel?

    But, like Goerge Costanza said, ‘It’s not a lie, if you believe it.’

    Oh, and you’re still a complete pussy if you can’t identify yourself — pussy.

  58. Daughtio said,

    Well, dadio…since that’s what you think of it I think I’ll put off seeing it until it comes out to rent. Hey, I’ll save $4. Haha, I say that because we tend to agree on a lot of things. Although, I have to say I’d love if it were a Lifetime movie, since you know…I live on that channel, ha! Television for Women…gotta love it.

    Oh, and I happened to be in my Sophomore History class when it happened. And yes, I was supposed to be in NY, but……….haha, just kidding! 🙂

  59. jarheaddoc said,

    Anonymous-maybe you should post under Fox Mulder.

    And fire has indeed caused the collapse of steel buildings. You don’t need to ‘melt’ steel to weaken it. You only have to heat it enough to bend it.

    Check any fire service manual and what the text says about truss contruction. And were those tests done in an enclosed structure, where heat and the byproducts of combustion rise and collect and a little thing called a flashover happens? And what you described as ‘holt and smoldering and smoky’ goes a long ways towards describing what’s known as a backdraft, where a sudden rush of oxygen rich air will cause the fire to reignite and explode.

    Now let’s look at how buildings are contructed: all the pieces fit together to support each other, and it doesn’t necessarily take a lot of force to undo the structure.

    It’s pretty simple, if you ask me: the heat caused the sturctural integrity to fail and the weight of the structure caused the collapse. And since you like to reference physics, look up kinetic energy: a quick definition is the amount of energy a moving object carries. In simple terms, the mass above the fires had a certain amount of potential energy, which is defined as the energy an object can exert when put into motion, which was translated into kinetic energy, and the rest is pretty simple: a weakened structure could not stand the forces that were exerted on it.

    It’s all in how you put a spin to physics. Are you a lawyer, by any chance, Fox Mulder?

  60. Linda said,

    Mark and Gil, you may want to stick with the poetry. From an internet source (that I’ve lost track of) on Lord Byron (we’ve talked about him before, right, Brenda?):

    “Success came in 1812 when Byron published the first two cantos of CHILDE HAROLD’S PILGRIMAGE (1812-1818). “I awoke one morning and found myself famous,” he later said. He became an adored character of London society, he spoke in the House of Lords effectively on liberal themes, and had a hectic love-affair with Lady Caroline Lamb. ”Mad – bad – and dangerous to know,” she wrote in her journal on the evening she first saw him. But the love of Byron’s life was according to Fiona MacCarthy (see Byron: Life and Legend, 2002) an impoverished choirboy named John Edleston”

    Choirboys aside, it’s obvious that being a poet helped Byron get women.

  61. Brenda said,

    well, I like Gil’s poetry, but we’d NEVER hook up! I’m too butch in bed for him!

  62. Linda said,

    I may be spacing it (stranger things have happpened) — now I’m not sure that it was Brenda who was so interested in Lord Byron. Whoever you are, if not Brenda, I apologize for the lapse

  63. Brenda said,

    it was me. I read a book about “Criminal Conversations” in college, but I can’t remember if Lord Byron was at the beginning or end of the book.

  64. Brenda said,

    I’m surprised that you are discussing Gil having a lack of female companionship- I think there might be someone out there (not me) who would like Gil, and his poetry is fun to read, gives me a different perspective on him- I even wondered if it was the same Gil!
    But, personality – wise, if I were interested in any man around here, K2’s personality is the only man around here I’d be interested in…..

    well, if dan got some counselling & took some classes, I do like his political leanings……just not his style.

  65. picodegallo said,

    ok blumpkin- what time is it? where’s your cuckoo clock?

  66. Linda said,

    Matchmakers R Us

  67. Linda said,

    Sorry. I’m done.

  68. K2 said,

    Brenda, I’m not sure where the glory holes are in L/A, but I’ll get back to you.

    Sorry, that was ruthless. Just kidding. We all know one’s in stall #2 at the Sportsmen’s Club. (No, Gil, the formica splinters don’t cause cock cancer.)

    LaFlamme, that moon landing, I mean, those moon landings, all six of them, were filmed in Tulsa. Friend of a friend. You know.

    jd, thanks for helping me out here on the WTC front. Cripes, it’s like I’m arguing about whether or not there was a Holocaust. (Was there, Anonymous?)

    What’s also left out is the damage incurred from fully loaded 747s flying into a building at 400+ miles per hour. Last I checked, 747s are pretty fucking big and heavy. They might do more than a little something to a skyscraper’s structural integrity. And the steel wasn’t the highest quality — it was simply to code. Here’s more: http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.shtml

    And jd, your PE/KE talk is right on. Throw in gravity, that whore, and Occam’s Razor is right in front of you.

    A mind is a terrible thing. . . .

  69. K2 said,

    Me wrong. It was more like 180 MPH. Still a bit quick. Sue me.

  70. AO said,

    Holocaust, K2? I would think so. Why are we still going round and round about this horrible incident? Man, lot’s of innocent lives were lost! I knew someone on the first plane that crashed into TWTC. And, just like K2, I grieve for the children he left behind. I’ve been through really hard days…personally but, 9/11 was one of the most emotional days of my life. I’ll NEVER forget watching that second plane crash….it’s imbedded deeply. And, not to be gross but, who saw that young man take a swan dive of the top of TWTC? Who could blame him? GAWD.

  71. jarheaddoc said,

    Occam was a pretty smart dude, K2: the simplest solution is most often the one that will work the best, the majority of the time. And that fucker said it back in what, the 1600’s?

    And if you liked that talk on physics, I’ve got a really good one on why we pee when it’s cold….

  72. Nadine said,

    Holy shite people! This blog is all over the place — it’s like talking to someone who is paranoid schizophrenic! HA!

    Here’s my slice of the brain:

    MT, my trip was great, thanks! It was a LOT cooler then I’d wished it to be, but we had a blast anyway. Rides and games, baked in the sun, GOT baked in the sun (4 u K2!), got a new tattoo, lots of swimming (ocean, hot-tub, and pool, lol!), and I rode a Ferris Wheel for the first time in my life — with my son, and it was his first time too! 🙂

  73. Gil said,

    Anon, you are still an idiot. Welding is one of the many things I do for a living and I can tell you now that you don’t have to melt steel in order to weaken it to a point of failure. If I want to bend a piece of metal I don’t melt it and then reform it in the shape I need. I heat it, the metal becomes malleable without ever nearing a melt point. New word for the day for under-educated myrmidon conspiracy asshats – ANNEAL.

  74. jarheaddoc said,

    Anon, one of the things you have apparently missed is the intelligence level of the people who brought those towers down. They were not the more well known version of suicide bombers, which is the one person in a crowd with a bunch of explosives on his or her person. I will place my money on a smart, determined terrorist any day of the week before I will an engineer who has never been outside of the lab.

    “If a lot of people start telling you the same thing, all those people can’t be wrong”

  75. lost shoe said,

    “If a lot of people start telling you the same thing, all those people can’t be wrong”
    If I felt like spending the time, I could really argue what’s wrong with that statement. Number of people who say or believe something has nothing to do with how true it is……
    However, I do agree with the real point you were making.

  76. At it again......... said,

  77. LaFlamme said,

    Huh. Interesting. Kinda creepy.

  78. K2 said,

  79. Gil said,

    Still a bunch of friggin’ idiots who know nothing of explosives, metallurgy, or physics.

  80. K2 said,

    Or reality. Like all those people in on ‘the conspiracy’ could keep their mouths shut? People talk — always.

  81. Tired of the Airhead Twins said,

    Pussies and idiots.

    A fitting way to describe two over the hill, self rightous, pompous, conceited, arrogant windbags, K2 and Gil. Maybe, just maybe, if you two would quit ridiculing people, someone might just be able to present their views about something and we could all have a meaningful discussion concerning 911.

    Then again, people like yourself who do not believe that the government would stoop to furthering their own agenda (no WMDs ring a bell? Iraq and Saddam not having anything to do with 911 ring a bell as well?) by doing something like this are the ones to be pitied. Maybe if you and Gil stopped vilifying people who believe differently than you do and use that supposed superior gray matter between your ears to actually see what is going on around you, there may just be hope for you two yet. If not, then there is always room in the pussies and idiots playpen for you.

  82. jarheaddoc said,

    Well, shit, you might as well make it triplets, because this sounds a lot like Brenda, only minimally better with grammar.

  83. Gil said,

    Ok Dan, if someone disagrees with you, or worse yet, uses logic and reasoning to defend their opposition to your moronic, indefensible claims, that makes them pussies and idiots? So let’s hear your completely plausible, yet somehow unverifiable, theory of what transpired on the morning of Sept 11th. Explain to me how an administration as inept as you claim the current one to be could carry off a subterfuge on this scale. They can’t investigate the terrorists phone calls or bank records without it showing up on the cover of the NY Times, yet somehow, the unbelievable amount of manpower that would be involved in such an act has yet to develop one single leaker? ‘ll be waiting for your witty retort whilst holding my breath.

  84. Gil said,

    Still…..holding…breath

  85. Mainetarr said,

    You’ll be holding your breath for a long time, Gil, if you are waiting for anything witty from Dan, that’s for sure. Or if you wait for him to back up anything he says, well, you will be waiting for an eternity.

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