Predator
Okay, turning serious a moment here. It happens with about the same regularity as the appearance of Haley’s Comet. This time, I want to pick your deep minds about the new controversy over the state sex offender registry. To those of you who missed the latest, I’ll be brief.
On Easter, a 20-year-old man from Nova Scotia began tracking down registered sex offenders and gunning them down. Two sex offenders were slain as the gunman apparently targeted the easiest to find on his hunting spree.
One of those killed was a 24-year-old who, a year or so before, had been convicted of having sex with his teenage girlfriend. The registry does not make distinctions. A 20-year-old who messes with a 15-year-old will be tossed into the list next to an old man convicted for repeatedly raping toddlers. Therein lies the controversy.
“There should be degrees in this law,” said Shirley Turner of Hartland, who choked back tears as she told the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee that her 24-year-old son lost his life because Maine’s registry wrongly labeled him as a dangerous pedophile. “It was consensual,” said Turner. “My son was in love with a young girl. It was two weeks before her 16th birthday.”
Here in the Lost Sole, we tend to take a hard line on sexual fiends. And rightfully so. Grown men and women know better than to prey on the young or helpless and if you get caught, you’re going down. So to speak.
But does the story of a 23-year-old Romeo with his nearly 16-year-old Juliette prompt a reconsideration of the system? You could say that this is just young love and the smitten young man should not be classified on par with the true rippers. Or you could say that if it’s true love, maybe he could have kept it in his pants a few more months until the law gave them the nod. As usual, opinions are varied. Should the registry be modified? Eliminated? Left alone?
And that concludes the serious portion of this blog. Haley has passed. Coming up tomorrow: boogers. Necessary nostril defenders or just mucoid playthings? And why is Mainetarr afraid of them?
The Screaming Room 
jarheaddoc said,
September 14, 2006 at 5:26 am
I am not saying the guy deserved to die, but if it was ‘true love’ and not truly in lust’ between the guy and his not quite yet legal girlffirend, what’s a few more days until she’s legal.
I understand where this woman is coming from when she says the law paints a lot people with a pretty broad brush. I would have to do more research on it and not just depend on the sound bite of one news story that’s showing a crying mother, tugging at heart strings.
Maybe it’s a case of a law being too strict and some degrees of separation do need to be in place, but maybe it’s also an attempt by a sick group of people to try to lessen the impact this law has had on their lives. Maybe the victims are getting justice this time around.
Linda said,
September 14, 2006 at 5:55 am
Do 15 year olds and 23 year olds know what the law is? A couple of years ago I listened to a 90 minute presentation about sexual offense laws and I took away the impression that it’s pretty complex, with several stages of offense. Did any of you ever think anything remotely like “if we wait five weeks it will be safer legally”? Ever look beyond what time the car had to be home or whatever?
I don’t think a 23 year old should have any kind of free pass for sex with a 15 year old, and maybe this year’s events will raise awareness of the risk.
FRED said,
September 14, 2006 at 6:59 am
I think it should be regulated to”tiers’,with the most dangerous(those who pray on children) at the top of the list. Those who are truly pedophiles!It should be open season on these people all year `round. As for consensual sex between teenagers ,it has always happened and probably always will As for the pedophiles ,there is no such thing as a one time offense. Its who they are and they can`t be “rehabilitated”Life in prison with no chance of ever getting out is the LEAST that they should get. I think it should be a mandatory death sentence .With no appeals!
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 8:08 am
As pointed out in the article the other day, there’s no list for murderers or other violent offenders. However, I agree with Fred for the most part.
Regardless, Mrs. Turner has a valid point.
Gil said,
September 14, 2006 at 8:23 am
A 23 year old having sex with a 15 year old is a crime. I could care less if they were in love. Have you ever talked to a 15 year old girl? There’s a reason we don’t let them vote or drive. Any 23 year old man having sex with them is taking advantage of that fact. Have some empathy for the girl’s family. If it were my daughter, who is now 17 and I still don’t like the fact that she talks to boys her own age, there would have been only one trial and that would have been mine.
brenda said,
September 14, 2006 at 8:34 am
I’ve looked through the list. I had to check the codes of each one, it wasn’t easy but I began to see a difference. There are some people in my community who are on it for something like messing with someone at work, 2 guys I know who are on it for sex with someone who was too drunk to say “no” 25 years ago, and I picture it like this, they woke up and said, “Oh, no! I must’ve been too drunk! I never would have done that with you! You took advantage of me when I was drunk!” or maybe they got caught cheating & didn’t want to take responsibility . (?) maybe.
Anyway, I also know several people who should be on the list & aren’t. There’s a couple people in my family who were never punished while others were punished instead, but were innocent. So I know there are people around me I can’t leave my kid around, who are not on any list & I don’t depend on the list to feel safe. I have to take responsibility & watch my kids and make judgements about people in my community, based on my own criteria.
somebody else said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:18 am
Then you have all those religious people preying on kids as well, most of the time right in the church. I recently saw an obituary for someone who was behind my reason to stop attending a certain church in the LA area. If this person went after one child, it makes you wonder just how many other kids went through the same thing over the years while this person was faithfully attending church.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:45 am
She was two weeks away from 16, Gil. I guess you respect the relative arbitrariness of the statute in this particular case. I however, do not.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:48 am
Hey, somebody else: How do you get a priest laid with a nun?
Dress the nun up as an alter boy.
Jerry said,
September 14, 2006 at 10:09 am
When they teach sex-ed in the schools, they should teach the laws about it. Then guys have been forewarned, then if they wanna take their chances…..
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 10:26 am
For what it’s worth, here’s my opinion. It’s a fact that 18 year old boys are going to try to get into the pants of 15 year old girls. Does that make them sexual predators? According to the law, yes, it does. So if their names appear on the sex offenders registry, tough shit. Keep it in your pants or wait until the girl is of age, period. There are plenty of horny 18 year old girls, stay away from the younger ones.
On another note, I want to put this thought out there to you lost solers. I have checked out the registry and whenever I see a woman’s name on that list, I want to throw up. For some reason, it hits me harder to see a woman on that list then the men. Why is that? I think it’s a combination of things, but women are supposed to be “motherly” and take care and protect children, not exploit them. (Not that men don’t have the same responsibility-but for some reason it hits me differently.) I also think women get treated differently when it comes to pedoplilia. Look at all of the school teachers who have sex with their students. Mary Kay Letourneau is a virtual superstar, even married the kid who fathered their baby. It’s just wrong, should be punished equally across the board. Life in prisionment, and if it’s a member of your family, death penalty.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Maybe if the state lightens up on the beastiality laws? . . .
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Yeah! For chrissakes, let us pick out a nice, willing sheep and we won’t have all these problems with human aggression.
When I say “us” I mean “those weirdos.”
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 1:23 pm
There are a few local women sex offenders and one stands out as particularly troublesome. Apparently, she’s outwardly sweet and gets her share of babysitting gigs (she’s in her late 30’s). But when the happy parents come home, they find the baby sitter stretched naked across the couch and one child on each end of her. Or some variation of that story. The naughty sitter teaches the young ones new tricks. This chick is in and out of jail. Right now, I believe she’s out.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Sure, the ‘weirdos.’ Them. Yeah.
“Smells Like Teen [Pussy]”?
Okay, that’s over the line.
But if there’s grass on the field, PLAY BALL!
Richie said,
September 14, 2006 at 2:06 pm
All of this discussion merely obscures the fact that the sex offender list is a good thing. Some of the arguments are downright silly; “why aren’t there lists of murdurers” & so on; as if there is parity between the two crimes. Its like the kid arguing with his parents as to why he has to go to bed early and his bigger brother doesn’t. Waaa.
The legislature established this, and if you don’t like it, get them to change it.
The one example that keeps getting cited over and over again is the M-23 / F-15 fellow. All we ever hear is what the guy himself has to say, or his mommy. No where do they say that he married the girl, or anything else that might concievably exonerate him; or perhaps alleviate his status. What has he done to rehabilitate himself ? What has he done to demonstrate that he “gets it”; that preying on immature girls is the wrong thing to do ?
Now, I agree; compared to some of these mutants, this guy actually looks good. I wouldn’t have a problem with him living in my neighborhood; but then, I’m armed, and I don’t have a 15yr old daughter living at home. OTOH, I wouldn’t want some of these others anywheres near where I live. It’s good that I can go on line and see the last reproted location of these mutants. The biggest problem is that Society as a whole refuses to confront this problem directly. What DO we do with a person who has an incurable propensity for an activity that is legally wrong and morally reprehensible ? We have the myth of prison being where someone “pays their debt to society”, and in reality its merely where we warehouse people for a period of time between criminal events. So, what DO we do with sex offenders ? You know they never stop. They’ll only do it again; so the gay guy who perps little boys; what do we do with him ? He’s a perv, put him in jail and all he is is a perv in jail. He serves 5 yrs and gets out, and now he”s a perv with a criminal record and he’s coming to your neighborhood.
Sex crimes are the crimes that just keep on giving. Years ago, when we lived in Massachusetts, our apartment was burglarised. It took us years, but we got over it. Vistims of sex crimes NEVER get over it. Oh, they may survive through coping skills, but they NEVER look at life the same way again. It affects them, their families, their relationships, everything ! So, we lock the perv up for a few years. Then he get’s back out. What about his (or her) victim ? The victim is in a jail of their own (and the pervs’) creation. No escape.
People will say I’m not sensitive, or, perhaps not sufficiently nuanced (to use liberla geek-speak), but I have no sympathy what so ever for sex criminals. It’s wrong, they know it’s wrong. and why in hell do the rest of us normal people have to put up with this crap ? Rape and beat a 10yr old girl and leave her for dead ? That’s good enough for me – fire up old sparky and lets get to cookin’ ! Oh, not humane enough ? OK, .32 cal bullet at the base of the skull. Oh, thats harsh and cruel ? How about the victim ? Was what happened to her “harsh and cruel” ? “But, Richie, that won’t stop others from doing crimes !”. Maybeso, but at least this one won’t offend again.
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 2:41 pm
Amen Richie, Amen.
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Two words: Martin Finley Jr., former owner of the Chalet. Convicted of sexually exploiting dozens of young girls with a camera and molesting many of them. He’s out and about. Someone tell me why he’s not getting beaten on a daily basis?
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 3:05 pm
By the way, if you are going to continue booger bashing me, I will….uh, I , uh, well, I’ll….I don’t know, but I will, I swear it!!
Richie said,
September 14, 2006 at 3:14 pm
iI know about that case; there’s a tad more to it than was disclosed. None of it is a justification or exoneration in his case, though.
He escapes societal peer pressure because he blends in to the background, and unless you know the particulars of his case, you’d never know his criminal behavior.
It’s not like they have to wear a patch on their coat or something. Standing in a crowd, you’d never know the perv.
Also, in our Society, if you did as you propose, beating him every day, how long would it be before YOU were locked up ? Again, this is because we play the fiction that the perv has “paid his debt to society” thus precluding you from imposing justice on him. In the interest of a safer and more-orderly society we have surrendered ‘private justice’ (revenge, ‘code of the hills’, clan warfare) to Society in the form of Public / Criminal Justice.
Also, Mr. Finley has moved and no longer resides in Lewiston. I know where he is, but I needed to know the town in order to search the Maine registry.. Without knowing the town, all I could determine at first was that he DIDN’T live in Auburn, where I reside. Now, I believe he is likely to reoffend. If, though, he manages to prove me wrong, well then, all well and good. But as far as I’m concerned, he’s re-offending and we just haven’t found out about it.
Where ever he moves to, he should be watched and watched closely. Never trusted , and most certainly never trusted around teens. Second Class citizen ? Yes, as far as I’m concerned he is. He gave up many of his rights when he became a predator and a danger to Society.
“It does not hurt to shoot one or two; ‘… pour encourager les autres …’, ne c’est pas ?”
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Ah, Mr. Finley. Remember how he got caught? Not only is he a ripper, he’s stupid. For those of you who don’t remember, he dropped off his photos for developing at a Rite Aid. This was before the advent of mainstream digital technology, of course.
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Rat bastard. He ought to be shot.
jarheaddoc said,
September 14, 2006 at 5:49 pm
An expression I heard at one time says this: you can judge a country by how it trreats its children and its criminals.
I will not disagree that the rights of the accused need to be protected. This, in theory, is what separates us from the ‘barbarians. HOWEVER, there are also victims, and those rights have already been violated.
The Maine sex offender registry is just fine with me, truth be known, but they should let you search by name, not just location, and there are a shitpot full of locations to check.
China has a pretty simple way of dealing with capital offenses: you get tried, judge, and that sentence is imposed essentially the same day. Some get life in prison, some get executed. I have heard that the ones who are executed are the lucky ones. The recidivism rate is very low because of this policy.
Now the Liberals will tell you that this policy violates human rights. Well, isn’t the victim a human, and didn’t that victim have rights? Richie is right, that is a prison for the rest of the days of the victim. Gang rape in the shower for the legnth of a sentence, on a daily basis, just isn’t good enough.
And the law is the law, both in letter and spirit. Gil makes a good point about when people are considered mentally competent to make such life affecting decisions, and a 23 year old man absolutely should have known better. Ya know what, check the ID of the intended: if one can’t be produced to prove the person is at least 18, go whack off or find someone your own age. Is Gil right about “his own trial?” Vigilante justice isn’t quite as in vogue as it once was.
My point in this diatribe, based on my opening sentence, is that we do a lot more in this country to protect the rights of the accused than we do the rights of the victims. And that is just wrong.
News Flasher said,
September 14, 2006 at 6:02 pm
In the Sun Journal today there was a nice little article about this guy, Billy Roy, who works at a Prompto or Jiffy Lube or some friggen place like that who got a promotion. They talk about what a great guy he is and all, but they forget to mention he is a pedophile. Look him up on the Maine Registry, there he is. Almost the same picture that was in the Sun Urinal. Asshole.
jarheaddoc said,
September 14, 2006 at 6:09 pm
And here’s my two cents on religious figures who are pedophiles: priests do not become pedophiles, pedophiles become priests.
It is deviant behavior and these people are using the church as a cover to do the crap they do. The Catholic church, like many religions, is very rigid in how it wants its members to live: the church dictates and the members genuflect and kiss a ring and call the priest ‘Father”. How many devout Catholics would question a priest, a man of god, a man who tells them they will go to hell if they don’t follow the dictates of the church? And why does the church cover for these people? Because the church doesn’t want to lose control of the people in the flock.
Now, having said all of that, I’m sure someone can quote a percentage of pedophiles who are priests, and it’s probably a small number. This says that the few are ruining it for the ones who are devoted to their religion for the purpose of religion, not the purpose of molesting children.
And the damn lawyers shouldn’t make an exception for a priest convicted of child molestation: they are no damn different and deserve the same treatment.
And now I am going to go take a deep, cleansing breath
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 6:15 pm
I think you should shut the flock up you old windbag. LOL
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 6:16 pm
You know I am just fooling with you. You make some good points, kiddo. I am still in shock the state has not passed Jessica’s Law yet. Blows my mind, really.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 7:08 pm
A boy from Alabama comes home to his father and says, “Pa, I met me a girl who’s real purty and a virgin! Can I marry that girl, pa?”
“Afraid not, boy, ” says pa. “If she ain’t good enough for her family, she ain’t good enough for ours.”
Dave said,
September 14, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Just chop off their peckers. That might work.
It’s just amazing to me the number of freaks out on the loose. Catch any of the “Dateline” shows where the pervs chat on-line, and then come to meet their honeys. Yikes.
K2 said,
September 14, 2006 at 7:47 pm
Talk about a cockamamie idea, Dave.
Dave said,
September 14, 2006 at 7:56 pm
What hasn’t been discussed here is young males being molested by older ladies.
A crime or not?
jarheaddoc said,
September 14, 2006 at 7:59 pm
People don’t think of it like that for some reason, but it’s the same, isn’t it? I see your point. Maybe it’s a male thing, ya know, my son got some, so what’s the big deal? I don’t know.
Gil said,
September 14, 2006 at 8:00 pm
It’s an idea on the cutting edge.
A little slice of justice
However, it wouldn’t work, Dave. Nuts are nuts even without their nuts.
And K2, I don’t care if the girl was a day away from 16, the guy is still a sack and should be punished to the full extent of the law, as lame as it is. If my daughter came home with a 23 year old, even with her being 17, I’d send him packing in fear for his life. Guys like that are pariahs and go after young girls for the exact reason that they have no idea what they are doing. Time after time you read about these guys online trying to talk these girls into trusting them first, then believing that they are in love with them. It’s time we stop giving two shits about the criminal and start helping the victims. Child molestors should never be let out. One strike and you’re out. Geez, what a hardass.
jarheaddoc said,
September 14, 2006 at 8:20 pm
Well, gil, it sounds like you and I are on the same page tonight. Go figure.
However, all snippiness aside, this entire thing sounds to me like a group of criminals trying to play a victim card and I strongly disagree with that. The difference between a child molester and a one time murderer is that it was one time, the deed was done, a person is dead, yada yada yada, but a child molester isn’t fixable. What on Earth would possess a person to do that in the first place?
Can someone back me up on this, as I have never been in prison, but I have heard that a child molester does not fare well in prison, even amongst the hardest of criminals. If that’s true, that would lead me to think that there really is justice in the world, a pedophile being judged by a jury of his peers
Mainetarr said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:08 pm
hello!! DId I not ask about that earlier?
Dave said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:11 pm
I haven’t been to prison either, but think justice is played out quite well there.
Hopefully that jerk that “admitted” to the Ramsey murder will get his justice doled out in prison.
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:14 pm
Any jail or prison official will tell you that convicts will treat rippers differently than they treat your garden variety killer, drug dealer or robber. There have been incidents of Kangaroo Courts, where a pedophile was tried, found guilty and then punished by a group of his fellow inmates. I remember one case where the victim was beaten so badly and for so long, he was unrecognizeable. Also, dead.
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:15 pm
I have some really engrossing letters from prison inmates about that very concept. I’ll copy one and post it sometime. Very revealing.
LaFlamme said,
September 14, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Where the hell IS everybody? You know you want it. You say no, you mean yes.
Linda said,
September 14, 2006 at 11:11 pm
You guys sound like a posse tonight. A band of vigilantes. I’m out of the state so I can’t saddle up and ride with you on this one.
somebody else said,
September 15, 2006 at 12:19 am
Richie is right when he says that victims of a sexual crime carry it with them for the rest of their lives. Granted, they may have developed good coping skills over the years, but to this day, all the coping skills in the world won’t help me go into a cellar, no matter how well lit it is. In order to get on with my life, I have forgiven the offenders, but that still does nothing to help with the things that I may have blocked out as a child but my brain insists that as an adult I am ready to handle. Some days, I wish that I could just shut that portion of my brain off and not have to deal with that yet again.
brenda said,
September 15, 2006 at 8:50 am
There’s a couple things here I want to respond to.
Female aggressors. I see more & more, young teeny-bopper girls being sexually aggressive, and perhaps they don’t realise what they are playing with.
Richie, you mention the commonly held belief that a victim of childhood sexual abuse will be screwed up for life. I realise it is not your original belief, it is a commonly held one. It just pisses me off and I refuse to be used by “helping professions” and my life sacrificed for political power.
It is true that a woman who was abused, raped or molested MAY have residual issues, even flashbacks, decades later. But that does not mean that EVERY woman who was abused will be an emotional basketcase for life.
The belief that I will be emotionally damaged for life does more damage to me than the actual molestation ever did. IF I BELIEVE I am fragile I will BE fragile.
I finally told the Psych Professors & counsellors they are full of crap.
I get to decide WHO I AM, I refuse to be limited to a label such as AMAC “Adult Molested as a Child” and expected to be a victim forever.
Let me tell you something, kids should be protected from potential molestors. Always.
That doesn’t mean I am screwed up for life just because my schizophrenic uncle persuaded me to keep my teeth covered by my lips ….in the bathroom. When I was 19 I saw him again and looked at his crazy face, he said he did things he shouldn’t because of the voices….. and I let it go.
Why would I allow a mentally ill person control my mind or life for my whole life?
I’ll tell you what might have messed me up, though, if it had turned out differently. When I was 15 I ran away & went hitchhiking. I was picked up by a man in a truck. He got off the next freeway exit & headed towards the desert, the house lights were getting thinner & thinner, and I began to panic. He told me he would rape me, and I reached to the door handle, so he held my wrist really tight. I relaxed & started talking really calm & quiet to him, describing what my uncle had taught me and how I would please him the same way. I convinced him I would be a willing victim & he released my wrist to make a left turn- I prayed & opened the door & jumped out rolling backwards. I lost my glasses, ran screaming, arms waving, and a teenage couple picked me up and they got the license of the truck that was doing u-turns to come get me.
Well, I ended up back home, and the police did catch the man, he pleaded guilty to interfering with a minor, but the police told me, based on items in the truck, I had been in mortal danger.
If he had raped me, and if I’d lived, I probably would be traumatised. But I wasn’t.
When I was 19, I met a guy in a bar in Portland. We went to the beach and were going to “do it” – but he changed his mind. He said to me, to take control of my sexuality, make my own sexual decisions. Don’t just lie there, if I want to be with someone, then make that decision, and DO IT actively, otherwise, if I’m not into it, don’t just lie there & let a guy do it TO me. That guy did me a BIG favor, I thank him for that one conversation. I took a break from men for a few years, and I learned to be the one who decides who & when & how I have sex, and basically, I think I am pretty much always in control. I may start off feminine & following, but before it’s over, I’m the one on top, I’m butch in bed whether my partner is man or woman.
It’s the same with other aspects of life, I am the one who defines me, nobody will tell me who or what I am. Well, sure, people try, but they are talking to the mirror. Expressing their preconceived beliefs, perhaps. I don’t have to be limited by someone else’s labels.
K2 said,
September 15, 2006 at 9:26 am
somebody else, yes, innocence lost is gone forever. I’m currently reading F.S. Fitzgerald’s ‘Tender Is the Night,’ and one of the lead characters is an absolutely georgous woman, married to a hugely popular and entertaining doctor, but — and you don’t find this out till halfway through the book — it comes out that she’s secrety deranged because her dad had slept with her when she was — okay, Gil, you got me — 15. The mother had died, and the lonely dad became close to the the daughter. Then, way too close. Anyway, the perspective and deft language of Fitzgerald is poingnant in regards to the psychopathology of sexual child abuse, especially incest.
Anyhow, fuck it, who needs basements? . . .
Richie said,
September 15, 2006 at 9:44 am
Brenda; please re-read my post.
You’ve put a whole bunch of words in my mouth that I never said. Also, my opinions are merely that; my opinions; based on 25 yrs of Police Service and observation of the human condition. I don’t know nothin’ bout “commonly held” beliefs; I tie my own shoes and I do my own thinking. I certainly have no authority as an expert in Mental Health / Psychology.
You were more specific in your post than I was in mine; but, please excuse me; IMHO, anyone subjected to something as intense and personal as sexual abuse (or potential abuse such as your situation at age 15) IS affected by this. You can deny being affected; you can deny the extent to which you are affected, but you are affected ! In your case you claim NOT being affected; and vehemently oppose a perceived victimisation.
My intent was not to submit you to being a victim. As a matter of fact, my post wasn’t directed at you at all. One can can be a victim but one need not necessarily REMAIN a victim. Oh, there are those who do; for what ever their reason(s), but there are also those who not only adapt, but they improvise and manage to overcome. One heroic woman that comes to my mind is the woman helicopter pilot shot down and captured by the Iraqis during Gulf I. She was a victim, raped and tortured, and was victimised visciously and cruelly; but she has overcome this and is doing quite well with her life, thank you too much. When it involves kids; that makes it worse since they have no way to physically escape, and they have minimal coping skills.
I can address the issue of child physical abuse since I was abused as a child and have the physical scars to go with it. I also recognise my mental scars. I found my own coping mechanisms and they’ve worked well for me. I am not a victim or a victimiser, but I am still to this day affected by what happened to me !! Part of my coping was to enlist in the Police Service so as to be able to “do something”.
You have your own coping mechanisms. One of which is very obvious and apparent; that of being in “control”. I don’t believe that at anytime in my previous post did I attempt to tell you who you are what you are. You do that effectively enough that I have all the info I need. It works for you; it may or may not work for someone wlse; it doesn’t work at all for me.
Now, I’m not going to try and analyze this further. It really doesn’t matter; one does what one needs to do to survive . It’s obvious we travel in two different worlds, though.
Who was it – Jarhead ? who said Priests don’t become pedophiles; pedophiles become priests ? Very true. (Matter of fact, that applies across the entire spectrum of career fields.) The issue of gay-ness / pedophilia under the cover of the Church is an issue that doesn’t get much coverage due to the declining power and authority of organised religion in our lives.. I was raised Catholic. I even got sent to the seminary for a year until they threw me out. If the priest said “shit”; my parents would say “how much, and where”. In my case though, a Catholic cleric holds minimal sway over me. Religion holds less and less control in this country; a reaction being cults & such that exert great control. Go figure. The Catholic Church has problems which just can’t be solved in a blog such as this. But it WILL be up to the church members themselves to do it. Witness how some church members defend their pedophile priests when the information is eventually disclosed. As long as there are those who defend and conceal the behaviour, the behaviour will then continue.
As our society has become more “civilised”, we’ve also become more “nuanced”.
In the “old days” a trial might go something like “who is charged”, “who is the witness(es) against them (are they trustworthy and believable), “any evidence?” – guilty, let the sentence be served forthwith. And while a lot of truly guilty people were dealt with, this is also a vehicle for false accusations. Are things better now ? No; but they are ‘different’. Courts are very careful now days; so much so that people complain about how Courts favor the defendant. Lets get something straight . . innocent people are not in court for no reason ! Oh, you can go to the prison; they’re all innocent there – they’ll tell you so themselves ! But I never arrested and charged an innocent person. If I arrested or indicted them, they did it. They knew it, I knew it; and when we were done the jury and the judge knew it. So, no matter how bad our court system may be, I’d rather be here than in the courts of any other country in the world !
brenda said,
September 15, 2006 at 12:24 pm
gawd Richei, I wasn’t meaning to put words in you mouth, I wasn’t trying to even respond to everything you ever said.
I was just reacting to this:
“Sex crimes are the crimes that just keep on giving. Years ago, when we lived in Massachusetts, our apartment was burglarised. It took us years, but we got over it. Vistims of sex crimes NEVER get over it.”
Who are you to speak for Every Victim? Just because some/ many victims have long term ptoblems does not mean All victims have to be screwed up for life.
Affected? yeah, it helped me escape that rapist I hitchhiked with, didn’t it? And I am really good at keeping my teeth covered with my lips…..
no seriously, it wasn’t violent nor traumatic, and I confronted him in a safe place and understood he was mentally ill, and got a sense of that. So that is probably different from really malicious incest or molestation or rape.
It’s just that, in my 20’s, going to college- counsellors, the books & “helping” professionals stating that an AMAC will have lifelong issues really sent me into more emotional distress than the actual memory of being molested. The label of AMAC was a way to limit me, to label me, to sacrifice me to political goals. And that pissed me off, when I finally decided it was a self fulfilling prophesy & I can decide for myself to not think of myself as a “victim”
Now you see why I was contemplating posting anonymously in the first place. Now whatever I do or say, you will use it against me, stigmatise me as being “affected”
brenda said,
September 15, 2006 at 4:38 pm
When you say that someone who had a certain experience will have certain problems, that depends on your belief system.
The difference is whether you are a behaviorist or existentialist. William Glasser said that if Pavlov had used cats instead of dogs, we’d have “choice” theory in psychotherapy instead of “control” theory. Ring a bell when you feed a dog, and the dog will drool whenever it hears a bell. Cats, however- they go to the empty bowl, make some noises & walk around it til you fill it, then the cat sniffs it and walks away, making the point that the cat will eat when he/she wants to.
Behaviorists measure variables and make statistical generalisations, and that’s where the money is in psychology.
Who “makes” you answer a ringing phone? YOU have the choice, you don’t HAVE to answer it just because it rang.
Behaviorists “…give priority to phenomenon that lend themselves to the degrees of control necessary for the formulation of abstract laws. ….what can be reduced to abstract laws is selected for study, and whether what is studied has reality or not is irrelevant to this goal. Many an impressive system in psychology has been erected, with abstraction piled high upon abstraction, until an admirable and improsing structure has been built. The only trouble is that the edifice has often been seperated from reality in its very foundation.”
On the other hand, Existential psychotherapy has at it’s basis the concepts of each individual’s freedom & responsibility for his/ her life. “Freedom refers to the fact that the human being is responsible for & the author of his or her own world, own life design, own choices and actions.”
“Individuals differ enormously in the degree of responsibility they are willing to accept for their life situation and their modes of denying responsibility. …. Some individuals displace responsibility for their situation onto other people, onto life circumstances, onto bosses & spouces, and when they enter treatment, they transfer responsibility for their therapy to their psychotherapist. Other individuals deny responsibility by experiencing themselves as innocent victims….Still others shuck responsibility by temporarily being “out of their minds” – they enter a temporary irrational state in which they are not accountable even to themselves for their behavior. ” (May & Yalom)
I am not saying a victim of abuse its responsible for the abuse- I am not at all suggesting to blame the victim. What I am saying is that I am an existentialist and I believe that I have responsibility & choice in how I am affected by the experiences of my life. I get to choose the meaning I assign it, and how to go forward with my life.
When I joked that I’m “butch in bed” I did not mean that I try to control another person. The only person I am interested in controlling is myself, and I’m not attracted to people who are into controlling or being controlled.
I meant that I take an active roll in both my & my partner’s pleasure….
Sex is a celebration of life!
Crystal said,
September 15, 2006 at 4:56 pm
dID ANYONE SEE THE DATELINE SPECIAL ON TEENAGE MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRLS LAST NIGHT? Sorry all caps but don’t feel like retyping
jarheaddoc said,
September 15, 2006 at 5:33 pm
“Sex is a celebration of Life”
Jesus, that cuts right to the heart of everything, doesn’t it, Brenda? Humans are one of the few species on Earth that have sex for pleasure and not just procreation and are capable of having sex at any time.
My point is that the joy of something so personal has been removed by a predator, a violator, a pervert, whatever you want to call said someone. And there is a point where a person needs to stop being a victim and start being a survivor, regardless of what happend to that person. And that’s just my opinion. You can be controlled/defined by a situation, or you can use that situation to make you stronger
You said more with that one line than you did with everything else….
joker said,
September 15, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Here’s a joke I like, maybe you’ve heard it before?
Young King Arthur was ambushed and imprisoned by the monarch of a neighboring kingdom. The monarch could have killed him but was moved by Arthur’s youth and ideals. So, the monarch offered him his freedom, as long as he could answer a very difficult question. Arthur would have a year to figure out the answer and, if after a year, he still had no answer, he would be put to death.
The question?…What do women really want? Such a question would perplex even the most knowledgeable man, and to young Arthur, it seemed an impossible query. But, since it was better than death, he accepted the monarch’s proposition to have an answer by year’s end.
He returned to his kingdom and began to poll everyone: the princess, the priests, the wise men and even the court jester. He spoke with everyone, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer.
Many people advised him to consult the old witch, for only she would have the answer.
But the price would be high; as the witch was famous throughout the kingdom for the exorbitant prices she charged.
The last day of the year arrived and Arthur had no choice but to talk to the witch. She agreed to answer the question, but he would have to agree to her price first.
The old witch wanted to marry Sir Lancelot, the most noble of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur’s closest friend!
Young Arthur was horrified. She was hunchbacked and hideous, had only one tooth, smelled like sewage, made obscene noises, etc. He had never encountered such a repugnant creature in all his life.
He refused to force his friend to marry her and endure such a terrible burden; but Lancelot, learning of the proposal, spoke with Arthur.
He said nothing was too big of a sacrifice compared to Arthur’ s life and the preservation of the Round Table.
Hence, a wedding was proclaimed and the witch answered Arthur’s question thus:
What a woman really wants, she answered….is to be in charge of her own life.
Everyone in the kingdom instantly knew that the witch had uttered a great truth and that Arthur’s life would be spared.
And so it was, the neighboring monarch granted Arthur his freedom and Lancelot and the witch had a wonderful wedding.
The honeymoon hour approached and Lancelot, steeling himself for a horrific experience, entered the bedroom. But, what a sight awaited him. The most beautiful woman he had ever seen lay before him on the bed. The astounded Lancelot asked what had happened.
The beauty replied that since he had been so kind to her when she appeared as a witch, she would henceforth, be her horrible deformed self only half the time and the beautiful maiden the other half.
Which would he prefer? Beautiful during the day….or night?
Lancelot pondered the predicament. During the day, a beautiful woman to show off to his friends, but at night, in the privacy of his castle, an old witch? Or, would he prefer having a hideous witch during the day, but by night, a beautiful woman for him to enjoy wondrous intimate moments?
What would YOU do?
What Lancelot chose is below. BUT….make YOUR choice before you scroll down below. OKAY?
Noble Lancelot said that he would allow HER to make the choice herself.
Upon hearing this, she announced that she would be beautiful all the time because he had respected her enough to let her be in charge of her own life.
Now….what is the moral to this story?
The moral is…..
If you don’t let a woman have her own way….
Things are going to get ugly
Linda said,
September 15, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Brenda, if you could have your own way either in the day or in the night, which would you pick?
brenda said,
September 16, 2006 at 8:04 am
haha!
brenda said,
September 16, 2006 at 8:38 am
Linda, when I read that joke, I thought it was funny, the pun at the end, but I hadn’t analysed it or applied it to myself. I didn’t relate to the witch with the sought-after wisdom that could save a king’s life, and if I had that wisdom, I’d have probably given it away on some irreverent unapprecative blog instead of saving it as collateral for marriage. I wouldn’t want a “lance-a-lot” so much to make that kind of a deal anyway. I don’t want somebody who doesn’t want me, ugly rotting teeth & all.
Anyway, If I got the teeth fixed I’d be as pretty as I need to be, day and night. But I still wouldn’t coerce any lance-a-lot into marriage. It’s just a cute funny story, until I analyse the fun out of it, ey?
Linda said,
September 16, 2006 at 9:04 am
I guess you and I just have VERY different senses of humor, Brenda. It’s just as well, because if everyone thought the same way, there’d be no point to a blog or even to a conversation.
I wasn’t asking you about being beautiful or getting married or to analyze anything — it was just a joke. Obviously not a very funny one. I’ll work on my material.
brenda said,
September 16, 2006 at 9:26 am
no, it was funny – just stick with my first reaction- haha!
i just sometimes get the braincells going, that story reminds me of the book- “Women who run with the Wolves” – which goes overboard with a variety of Jungian & pop-psych analyses of dreams, stories & myths. I read it decades ago, and I need something more engaging to read now, I suppose.
Linda said,
September 16, 2006 at 9:40 am
I’ve given up on understanding people: I’m reading “The Dogs of Bedlam Farm” in hopes of at least understanding dogs. (That’s a joke too BTW, since the book is as much about people as dogs)